grim reaper undecability

Ok so the staff are having trouble deciding wether grim reapers should be undecable to people who can sense or not in combat. There are several reasons why this is good and bad.

Reasons for option 1

Grim reapers have stayed hidden for thousands of years, yet they come to the human world all the time to mark people for death. They would have to defend themselves from hollows and muggers and other dangers, meaning Shinigami would have noticed their unatural reiatsu easily, and grim reapers would have been discovered quickly. For people who deal in death, thats not good.

Reason for option 2

Grim reapers have powerful natural healing, whats stopping them from running and hiding until the wounds heal up? they are also as powerful as sinners, giving them undecability will make them that much more troublesome in combat. Also, they're taking the bounto's most useful trait.

So far we've agreed on the following for grim reapers:

high speed regeneration.
Natural x2 boosts to speed strength stamina and durabilty. (they have releases, these boosts will change then.)
grim reapers have spent 500 years of intense training to hone their skill, small frys will have full autorization and will be atleast 2-3.
They are skilled with their weapons, more so than most other races. (because of the training they endured.)
the min age for grimmies will be atleast 1500, and 800 for small frys.
Grim reapers are restricted, only people who've proven they can handle powerful characters like sinners will be allowed one to avoid skill modding.

If i've missed anything, kano or Jun will cover it, so read their posts before you post.

Edit: because fritz picked the wrong option, the current scores are 9/8 instead of 8/9 Also, poll closes on wensday.

It's thousands, not hundreds of years. And I don't think the x2 natural boosts were approved, and if they were, I missed it. So is that one true, Kano? And the Hardened Skin has been thrown out. And they are of normal tier strength, like the only way to for sure tell that a 1-1 Grim Reaper can beat a 1-1 Sinner or Shinigami is through RP. Now, for my side of things...

1. As Zenke said, they do have to defend themselves. If they didn't have it, they'll be found in a decade, most likely less, if they were revealed during combat. It gives them a reason why they've never been encountered before or known. Now, finding the symbol on the victim's body (NPCs btw. Not actual player characters) is difficult. And the range of the feeling of dread is up for debate. It could have increased over the years, and thus the reason why they're being noticed by now, at least a little bit. Just because Squad 2 and Rui Herutsu specializes in controlling their powers, doesn't mean they've stayed hidden for such a long time and no one knows about them. They are known. They have been discovered. And in the World of the Living at that. And the Feeling of Dread is still there, so it's not complete, you can narrow it down to where they are based on how strong it feels. So it is NOT exactly like the bounto's at all.

2. They're not garunteed to be against the Sinners. Or any race for that matter.

3. The worry of a hide and heal is baseless for several reasons. Who has successfully retreated and stayed hidden to rest? Far as I know, no one. Doing such a thing is extremely difficult to do. They will be in your face trying to tear it off for most of the battle if not all of it. Not only that, just because they won't bleed to death doesn't mean they're invulnerable or recover from hits. You take off the head or stab the heart, they are dead. Their durability still suffers. As what it has been shown in Bleach, just because you look like you were unharmed by a massive energy beam, doesn't mean you don't hurt or hasn't taken a toll on their durability, unless the tier difference is just that huge. This next comment belongs to both 1 and 3. If a bounto had the same type of healing ability, would you be against the undetectable, which is literally for them? And I mean as a racial ability not just one that they willingly use. Either way, I would be against one or the other unless you could be narrowed down by something that gives you away that you're in the general area. Just like what I have with it.

4. For those of you who are curious on racial abilities, the High Speed Regen. is better than Rui's. And the only other one. And it is constant for all of them. Everything else is A: For them to do their job and B: Equivalent of something. Without it, where is their identity? Everything else is small. There is no other useful racial ability that hasn't been taken.

Quite frankly, if this doesn't pass, then the Grim Reapers don't pass. There is no other way that they cannot be found out without being couped up in their own dimension. Which they don't, they have a job to do. And kind of hard to do their job if they need to be in the right place to do it.

Edit: Kano, don't be an asshole. Just post up your points and that's it. A lot of what you said was uncalled for. It's not a threat. No one is that dumb to not notice the different power. Also, I can explain that. As time went on, due to the number of people they killed, that feeling of dread increased. Somehow, someway. Now, don't do that again, and be a bit more respectful.

Alright then, I've read the reasons for these Grim Reapers, both for and against. To be honest, I feel that the information gives me a decent view on the Grimmies as a whole. I polled a No, for these reasons I am about to go into.

I'll just copy Jun's format by using numbers to keep it simple.

1: The fact that one of the reasons is to disguise other races from discovering them. While it is good to note certain facts when combining a custom race with canon races, I feel it is not a solid reason to include racial powers just for a more seamless blend. Furthermore, if this is true, why would they all of a sudden be discovered now than they were earlier? I feel if they can be undetected for so many years without problems, that it would be no different now.

2: I don't understand why the second bit of information which Jun included in his post would be even part of this. Not to be mean, but saying:

"They're not garunteed to be against the Sinners. Or any race for that matter"

Does not make sense to give the Grimmies the ability to be undetectable. (I just wanted to point this one out)

3:They have a natural X2 boost, which I find some what disturbing in this point. If a basic hollow were to face off a shinigami without shikai and their tiers are about even, both of their power levels are about the same. BUT when you throw in a X2 boost for grimmies withOUT a release, i feel that upsets the balance of power. Having a tier 2-3 Grimmie small fry fighting a 2-3 shinigami with shikai, as the grimmie already has a passive boost without any release.

4: They are already at an old age, granting them a large amount of time to train, which is very useful despite its looks. Being alive and having the sole job of making sure things die and so on is a great way to be skilled with weapons and the grimmies' respective abilities. This large amount of time to live gives them a very good advantage when it comes to close combat, intelligence, tactics, and power control.

5: Though it is rare for the possibility for Grimmies to run and hide to heal, the fact that such a possibility exists worries me, especially if this racial ability of being undetectable interferes with someone else's character's sensing abilities. Being undetectable is stronger than on would think and should not be under estimated. Also this "Feeling of Dread" is very vague, especially when these feelings of dread interfere with a character's personality, such as being oblivious, or fearless, or what if they are mentally insane.

6: I have no problems with a powerful healing ability, but giving them this combination seems over the top. However, if this ability drained more spiritual energy to use because its more powerful i wouldn't mind it as much. But a combination without proper consequences seems too much for me.

7: I have some other ideas why i dislike this power having to do with the grimmie race itself, but I will refrain since this is just for the undetectable power.

I wish every one who is about to cast their vote to read all of these posts from Zenke, Jun, and myself, and everybody else who posts here, along with the thread about the actual Grim Reaper race.

A few sound points from orange. thank you. Btw, the x2 boosts were designed to make them more powerful yes, but a shini in shikai who's the same tier could handle an unreleased reaper, and after release, theses boosts dont stack with boosts from the scythe or other releases, so if some one has x2 strength with their sythe, theres not change to that boost. IF they have x3 then theres a change, obviously. it was just to make them stronger, if they are to go up against sinners who have x4 to all the same abilities. But sinners have no release.

Note: grim reapers are limited to max of x4 in their final form like all other races. in the long run, it evens out.

I just though i'd add to that so no one jumps to conclusions or anything.

Honestly, the idea of grim reapers to me is kind of dumb. Why add more races when there's enough as it is already, with some races barely being used? You've already added sinners....

Since I disagree with the idea of grim reapers in general I guess I'm neutral on their power abilities, thus not casting a vote... just felt like throwing in my opinion.

Tousei...that was voted on a while ago. So kind of the wrong place to vote that in. Little late pal, no offense.

Orange, you brought up some pretty good points. I'll address them in accordance with your numbers, like what you did with me. Zenke, thank you for clarifying with that as well. I was a little confused I guess...anyway.

1. The first part is more opinion than anything else. And I think it is necessary for a seamless blend. The second part is the one that needs to be addressed. Before, not as many people were noticing certain cues, like the Grim Symbol that is on those marked for death. Since only those that are spiritually aware could see them, and the shinigami thought nothing of it if they did see it. But now, more people are spiritually aware, the feeling of dread/death (will be addressed later) increased in range for some reason (I will be working out wording and everything if this is a go), and other such odd cues. Full investigations go out and things continue from there.

2. I only mentioned it because I think a few others besides Rena said that they were suppose to be against the Sinners. Which is not a garuntee. A little off topic and I apologise for bringing it up.

3. I think Zenke already addressed this one...Thank you for addressing that one...

4. Maybe not the tactics and intelligence part. They vary in character as much as everyone else. Fritz's Irou was a dumb brute who relied on his Imp for more than orders and quick transportation. He was purely for the combat part, which is what Grim Reaper number 2's role is (Top 8 each has a role, number 2 is like the Squad 11 of the group). Where my Grim Number 1 was in fact intelligent and decent in tactics, but not necessarily great at it. The power part, I'd have to argue. Rui has possibly the best control on site, and when he fights, even if he's used up enough of his huge energy reserves for his migraine to be nill, can't stay hidden. They second one fights, their power is known, according to the "compromise." Soul Society isn't dumb. They would know about it. Greator restraint perhaps, but not necessarily power control.

5. I think I already addressed this, but maybe I should be more specific. Technically, it would be a feeling of death/creepiness/morbidness? basically anything that could be associated with death, usually. But that's what makes it incomplete. I can mess with the wording on the background on that front as to why/how it suddenly increased, allowing those with average sensing abilities, which is most of the forum, to sense it. It's range is up for debate, be it 50 yards, just a few feet, or a hundred yards, and the closer to the source, the stronger it feels. Hence you can narrow it down to where they're at. They can't shapeshift, so you'll recognize them right away when you see them. The strong regenerative ability I just gave out an idea. Normally, yes, it does take energy heal at that rate that I describe. The idea I gave out in the Staff Board was that due to the harsh environment and training, the body just has a naturally fast healing rate. However, as the battle continues, it does start to slow and dull after so long, which is up for debate. I just the general question in the staff board of "what would be fair?". This will allow their full energy towards combat. But Kano and I'm assuming those that read it is okay with it, no one has commented on it yet. Only Grim 5 may take longer but only because that one's niche is healing/support'ish, generally the toughest to actually get rid of. Now for the personality traits you listed. Being oblivious is kind of their own fault, it's kind of like a plant user saying that a fire user's abilities are all god mod because it's burning their plants/abilities and not allowing most of them through (there could be more to this one, but just for simplicities sake let's say there isn't). Just because you're fearless, doesn't mean anything. The feeling of death/dread/creepiness is an indication that one is nearby. It wouldn't necessarily affect the character unless they're a coward or something with their personalities. Same with the insane. It's just a feeling, it doesn't affect the character at all, just tells them that a Grim Reaper is nearby. There is only so much you can do on that front. I should also point out that they are restricted for a reason, mostly noobs/newbs would use the combination to that effect. From what I can see, Orange, Zenke, Kano, Anz, Bliss, Fritz, and Rena are all trusted members and could make them and not abuse it. Soran is well on his way from what I've gathered.

6. I think I addressed this in 5. It will dull/slow down after so long, which has yet to be decided on.

7. Why don't you pm it to me and maybe I'll put some of those at rest or even bring them up in the Staff Board about them.

And I think I got everything. Thank you. Anyone else? Or something more you'd like addressed/be devil's advocate, Orange?

Dangit... I voted wrong...


Sorry, but Add 1 to the first choice..

And take 1 away from the last choice...

Sorry to complicate things a little

I believe that the grim reapers should be completely undetectable, since this is a Bleach rpg then there is a certain law that we have to follow; if the soul society could since them then the grim reapers would have never been a secret in the first place. with all of those powerful shinigami's out there, I doubt that anyone of them wouldn't have sensed them. although, since there is a dread like feeling when one is nearby; it does difference them from bounts. I also like this idea for rp purposes:

Quote :

Imagine walking alone on a cold winters night, its abnormally dark and strangely quite. the wind blows a strange chill that sends shivers down your spine. you don't know why, but you feel strange feeling... as if you scared of something or someone. your heart begins to race pounding violently against your chest, you begin to pick up your pace as your now walking faster. sweat begins to tread down your face, there's no one there yet there is this one dreaded feeling in your gut that somethings there...

situations such as the one given are fun to rp and exciting. since most races are excellent at sensing, it would make them feel weary that they feel a sense of dread, yet they cannot sense what it is or where they are.

all in all since there is a dread like feeling, they aren't really undetectable; if they were really undetectable then no one would be able to sense or feel anything at all, but seeing as though there is a dread like feeling then there is something that is felt...

I have voted yes, however I would like to propose a compromise which i believe will make everyone happy. To start off grim reapers, reiatsu is completely undetectable, the feeling of dread remains. However, in order for them to fight someone they must mark them. Only those marked by a grim can feel their reiatsu. While NPC will die or w/e effect it already has playable characters will be able to interact with grim reapers and harm/be harmed by them.

As a matter of credit where credit is due, in tons of series we see this effect when it comes to grim reapers... only those marked by death can see them. This is not to say that grim reapers can't be seen without being marked only that their reiatsu cannot be felt and their attacks will not land. The effect of the mark is unique to each grim reaper and does not last longer then a thread. Also if the mark requires some sort of initial contact perhaps some other sort mechanism but keeping the general idea.

I would accept that with Open Arms Anz. but are unmarked kinda like a shingami phasing through a human with no spiritual perception? kinda like Rukia phased through Ichigo, minus the sight?

Exactly but add a feeling of dread and morbidity.

First, to answer what was said in the chat, it's what makes them work within the universe. I quote Bliss on the rest. Without it, they don't work because everyone knows about them. And for a new race that's been living just as long as shinigami and everyone else, that's kind of essential. It's small, but important to the point where there is no point, no excuse, to have them. It's a part of their entire history and culture, which is a part of their identity.

As to the suggestion...what? From what I can interpret, that means unless a Grim Reaper marks one with powers (which is impossible to do as the mark is the Grim's Death which garuntees their death but does not work with those with powers and on souls, like shinigami, hollow, arrancar, bounto etc. as it breaks up and disappears as their reiatsu negates it. That's why humans with powers disappear on their "death lists." Just to clarify that, at MOST they'll know a name, height, weight, and if they can see spirits, not their abilities or anything like that...and even then they'll have to look them up which could take hours to find that single person if not days or even longer.) they can't defend themselves from other souls or even humans that finds them. Which does not go well with them. The Grim's Death is purely for RP purposes and for them to do their jobs, like the shinigami's Konso. Them having to mark before defending themselves sets them up as the most weakest of things. As they would have to first mark a person of even tier, which is not a garuntee for a little bit. It'll happen, but not right away. Meanwhile, they might get a bunch damage as their version of a sealed form gets phased through while the other's fists or blade hits them as they're trying to mark them by touch. Completely not fair. They're not in a different phase of reality here. They're visible to everyone, even normal people. They do just seem like normal people...though some appearances can be questioning, but not any more than the stereotypical emo or goth person. I do have kinks to work out of their backstory, but that will be done when the most important part of them are done, which is the balancing.

So if I'm wrong, correct me and explain more in detail. Because that is what I'm getting. You have until Thursday, and then it'll have to be by pm. Because I'm gonna say this is all of the active members that are voting and lock it and close it by then. If you can't sell me on this, what the vote says, goes.

K so basic idea is this; Grims can only be detected by the person or people they are fighting. Ie. they cant be detected even in full authorization unless they intend to use their abilities on that person. the idea of marking them was more of an example now that I have thought about it i have more of a concrete example:

Person A is a grim reaper, they wish to fight person B. So they extend a new dynamic called i dunno will of the reaper or something. Allowing them to be able to attack them and be attacked by them. Once the will is extended it cannot be escaped out run or shut off unless agreed by both people or the thread ends or something. it requires NO PHYSICAL CONTACT, just a desire from person A to use his powers on person B.

Now new example say person B wants to fight person A, but person A doesn't want to:
They can't because they can do no harm and receive no harm from the grim reaper unless they are first affected by the will. To this person the reaper is no more then a plus soul which gives them a creepy feeling as described by the morbidity ect...

While yes this adds a new dynamic, the plot line is maintained because anyone in the past that the Reapers have extended their will upon has been killed. and they still remain completely undetectable.

Adding in one more piece to this, non-combat interactions are not limited in the same way. Since reapers are in affect incarnations of death, they can act like a normal person but in order hurt someone or be hurt by someone they must extend their will to include their target. Finally to just clarify, lets say person C is standing right next to person B and the grim doesn't want to fight them they don't have to in fact even though person B is under effect of the will Person C who's right next to him isn't and cannot feel the reapers reiatsu or interact with him in a combat fashion. (this assuming the grim hasn't extended his will on to person C as well; also I don't care what the name of the ability is reapers will was just for explanation purposes)

Finally this is just me looking for a way that everyone is happy, if it comes down to it I'm fine with leaving them undetectable.

While a great idea, I do see problems. The Grim Reapers would be trained to never use it, never to be effected by insults or provokation (since they'll be immune to attacks). It would let me have too much control over one's personality, which varies just like everyone elses and they're suppose to be just as creative and different as everyone else. They just want to do their jobs, generally. I know for a fact that my Grim 1 will never use it. He would ignore everyone. Every Grimmy would be trained to be just like him (or very similar to him). Thus their tiers, their combat strength, would be useless because they would never get into fights. They would purely be for social threads with other races. While they would only need their tiers and combat strength against each other for various reasons, like training, sparring matches, or the maybe 1 rogue that will be allowed because of how discouraged that would be from having at least one of the Top 8 after them, maybe two.

Plus, while they do fight to kill usually...it's against the rules to kill the person without their permission. Granted, that would be "nowadays," but who's to say that some didn't do that in the past? The knocked out person would have to explain what in the world they fought to their superiors. Giving a full on report. Thus, still no excuse for Soul Society or anyone else to not know about them. Or at least Soul Society. It's nice to have maybe a little bit of control, like over the imps and them not being able to betray the Dean, but extending that to the actual person's personality is pretty tyrant-ish and I myself don't approve of that. This was a good try, I do give you credit for that, but I'm not sold because of those two very big reasons.

Jun, the main issue with alot of things is your thinking to far in depth, your not allowing anything to even get close to subsituting, not even bleach canon characters explain ever single detail of how things happen. like how come there was no spiritually awar human that gave out hollows back then to human race, Ichigo never knew about hollows, you think there would be more spiritualy aware humans in a gaint globe that would mass up hollow sightings and the would would be known to the concept of shinigami and hollow.

Somethings are better left unthought of, such as with the original intention of fighting releases restu while not fighting keeps it completly undetectable. just say that they somehow avoided attention, or killed those that saw them. its really simple if you dont think to far into it, it is not neccassary to make an Anime, Uncanon race completly thought out down to the crossed T's and dotted I's, sometimes its oke to cross the I's and dot the T's

There wasn't exactly a massive human organization then. There was only the Xecution and that had what? Six members? And the Quincy were drastically reduced. There was no major band of humans with powers. Excuse me for having a very well thought out idea. I know we're not making an anime, though some character combinations on this site could almost have their own. Anyway, is it so wrong to cover all the bases, or at least most of them? Feu covered all of them when he made his arrancar from Hell. I've done that with the Grim Reapers. It isn't wrong. Actually, I'd rather have more information about a custom race than to have too little. Adding a noncanon race should cover the bases of most things. You don't give me solid proof of how they avoided attention, how they stayed hidden for so long, I'm gonna RP with Alexander Kerensky, Riku Tomoshibi, Akihiko Iyou, and Rui Herutsu that they know about them in general. Riku and Aki due to Soul Society, Alex K. due to being a scientist in the Human World, and Rui because his sensing abilities are so strong he can sense across dimensions for goodness sakes.

And there you have it. You don't like me having a well thought out race? Why are you against it? It's encouraged to have a well thought out character or ability, why not a well thought out noncanon race?

I have to say that I agree with Jun... In fact, if we are able to do Grimmies the always undetectable way, I will enforce the no noobing the Grim Reapers out. 1st offense, ask to fix it and slap them on the hands... 2nd offense (as in they don't fix it by the next 2 times they are on after being told to fix it OR if they do it again), we will strip them of their Grim Reaper {Harsh, I know} and not let them have that grimmy OR a new one for a week... After that week, we give it back... 3rd offense, (not decided which punishment, but they are severe all the same), take away and keep it from having a grimmy for a whole month OR take the ability for them to have Grimmies...

Jun has a good point in making Grim Reapers make sense. Hell, he even came up with a way for humans and other races to become Grim Reapers (which is basically they live in the Grim Reaper Realm for _______ amount of time). My idea with 'Deal with the Devil' would've taken part of the Grimmy's soul away and (after thinking about it) I realized the idea was horrible. Jun actually thought things including Grim Reaper Nobilities (might/might not be explained in Info, but that doesn't matter).

It would be cheap for Grim Reapers to only be undetectable while out of battle because the Grim Reaper could run away and become undetectable again when the fighting was too much for the Grimmy to handle. That in itself is a cowards move. And besides, while battling/not-battling might seem to work in theory, It's just a major f*ck up waiting to happen.

Anyways, another thing is that no matter what, Grim Reapers are undetectable... End of Story. Grim Reapers were Jun's idea, not ours. He asked us to see if we can nerf them up a bit, not change the one thing that could keep them from being known UNTIL THE PRESENT. Besides, the sinners are the Grim Reaper's (somewhat) equals and we also made them from scratch AND there is good rationality behind Sinners maybe existing in Bleach. Grim Reapers existing wouldn't make since if they were detectable when fighting, because that means that in order to not be detected, they would have to avoid any and every fights. And yes, a small amount of people were able to see spirits by the Bleach era, but before that it was like maybe little to none... AND those none were untrained/unaware of wtf was going on with the spirits and the chains attached to them (i.e. Don Kanoji).

Shinigami/Vizards might notice the Grim Reapers if Grimmies were undetectable when fighting because that mean there would be Spiritual Activity Spikes suddenly appear and after a couple minutes disappear, just because a group of humans OR a random hollow picked a fight with a Grim Reaper. Meaning that they would investigate those areas and probably find that Grim Reaper... So having Grim Reapers being detectable ONLY in fights would f*ck the Grim Reapers not being known until now just because someone survived a Grim Reaper encounter, because shinigami would know of the existance of Grim Reapers but didn't know what to do... Same thing with Vizards...

Quincies... I don't know what they would be doing around that time, but they would probably run into at least 1 grim reaper in their lifetime by accident... since most of them have been killed off since Shinigami hunts, I don't give a f*ck.

Arrancars/Hollows... They don't f*cking care whether or not humans are dying by spiritual beings that are undetectable, but they would give a f*ck if the Grim Reaper fought and gave a spike of spiritual energy because either A)the arrancars/hollows would want to test their strength by killing one of these beings OR B)the arrancars/hollows would want to eat that spiritual being...

Sinners... They have existed, but the Rebels of Hell (if I am not mistaken... If I am, blame my bad memory or my laziness to check) hasn't existed until the 22nd (2100-ish) century or something like that...



So, in other words, I strongly oppose the choosing of when to activate/deactivate spiritual pressures cause that is practically god-mod in general...

Also, we will enforce the Grim Reaper rule of 'Not abusing Undetectability by hiding, waiting a whole post to regenerate, then fight again at full strength'... In fact, ANYONE WHO SEES THOSE INSTANCES should report the staff members the person, character, and thread this rule was broken in, and let staff handle the accused...

Actually, Soul Society knew about Hell and the Sinners during Ichigo's time and before. They just didn't have an actual leadership and organization before our timeline. Now the Sinners do have an organization, but Soul Society doesn't know that yet to my knowledge. Check the Hell Verse Movie. They just never escaped from Hell before. The quincy's attention, and this had been explicitly said, had been on hollows, shinigmai, and the bounto during their mass execution.

Also, maybe occasionally, one can do hide and heal, but to do is extremely difficult, and again, their durability is still effected and their healing rate does decrease after so many posts of combat or something, it still needs to be worked out. But if they do it in every single thread or every other thread, and successfully, then we would be forced to take them away or something. Again, there is a reason they have limits to trusted RPers, much like the Sinners. Just thought I'd mention and correct a few things for ya, Fritz...

Jun im not mad at your "well thought out" im mad at the amount of close mindedness to ALL THROWN OUT IDEAS. every single one you got some small, but apparently gaint to you issue. like i said you could m,ake it so they remained undetected by being good at what they do and only getting the target secretly, no faults. or you could say only so little people saw them that they were considered Clinicly insane or something. SO many alternitives jun. and i extremely dislike the "Also, we will enforce the Grim Reaper rule of 'Not abusing Undetectability by hiding, waiting a whole post to regenerate, then fight again at full strength'" cause that would take in control over a persons actions more than anything. we dont make rules when something is quiet unfair, we get them to take it out or nerf it Fritz. and this discussion is not conversaition is not about sinners Jun, ITS ABOUT GRIMMIES.
and this doesnt make sense fritz

"It would be cheap for Grim Reapers to only be undetectable while out of battle because the Grim Reaper could run away and become undetectable again when the fighting was too much for the Grimmy to handle. That in itself is a cowards move. And besides, while battling/not-battling might seem to work in theory, It's just a major f*ck up waiting to happen."

its not cheap its more fair. and its out of the thread they would have to leave.

"the sinners are the Grim Reaper's (somewhat) equals and we also made them from scratch AND there is good rationality behind Sinners maybe existing in Bleach." They are NOT equals, due to many factors, one being grimmies would not be clashing sinners, two being that they have realeases. Sinners were not made from scratch, most of it is real stuff from the movie. some of it is improvised, but definetly NOT from scratch.

And honestly i would rather not have Grim reapers at all then have them with this ability

Apparently you are. Because I've effectively said why all of them won't work. You are severely overestimating how good at their jobs they are and severely underestimating Soul Society. They're good, but no one is perfect with those other excuses in place, some grimmy will mess up. You're almost trying to make them into a type of God or something if they were that good at staying hidden without this natural ability. The Sinner part was off topic, I was just correcting Fritz. Besides, not like we'll need to enforce it that much if we have to because A. You can narrow down where the person is by the feeling of dread and interrupt it to some extent and B. After so long, the healing rate does slow down and C. Just because you healed doesn't mean your durability hasn't suffered. You may not bleed to death yet, but you still got hurt a lot. They're not invulnerable just because they have it. Plus, the other guy can take the time to rest too.

I'm not being close minded. I have effectively obliterated every argument and alternative you and Anz have made. If you give me an alternative that I can't effectively say why it won't work, from them not being found to them running from every fight to them not even getting into a fight, then it might just work and then I'll use it. But so far, nothing you've given me works. I've pointed out every flaw with every one of them.

To be honest, this is like the age deal with Grand on RotR. You fought me against lowering it because it is a small deal and that you deserved to have it as it meshes with your background. Guess what, same thing almost and I have more than just two or three reasons to have it. It's a small deal that you're blowing out of proportion just like how I blown up that age deal out of proportion. You do outrank me, so you can deny the race as a whole (even though I am temp. owner, but I refuse to be a tyrant), but that also makes you into a tyrant. You don't have to make one. Hell, except maybe for events or missions or tournies you don't make, you might have to face one. No offense to you, Kano, but at this point it just seems like you're against it just for the sake of being against it and just wants to be a tyrant over this issue or something to that degree. Sorry for saying that, but I really am thinking that at this point.

you know what...fuck this shit.. im done with this go a head and do whatever the fuck you like. i dont care anymore ifg this is what gets back to me.

Thread is not locked and the final vote is in. Fritz changed his vote from against to for, as he posted saying that he has since you can't exactly change it on the actual poll.

For: 9

Against: 8

Grim Reapers are still a go. Thank you to those that posted why you might be against it and those that tried to list alternatives. Now, will all staff please go back to the Staff Board so that we can now continue in balancing them out. If some of you still have concerns after I've obliterated every alternative and every argument, feel free to pm me. But please bring up something new, because if I've already addressed it here, I'm just gonna point to here. Again, Thank You for your participation.